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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2014.01.29 00:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
Suspect flag for going into someone's pocket without authorization sounds fun. It would cause more pvp. Isn't that what pocket invaders want overall? Surely they aren't looking for easy targets and are scrub-tier pvpers. |
My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 00:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
Perhaps this change wouldn't be so good for real mission runners but it would certainly be hilarious to set up traps in very busy mission hubs.
In reality if this change ever happened this whole activity of mission griefing would probably drop off substantially and there wouldn't be enough targets to make ganking them worthwhile. |
My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 02:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Abdul 'aleem wrote:Yeah lots of people disagree with almost everything you posted, including this. Lots of people disagree? You mean you and a few publords who don't care about the overall state of the game so long as they can grind isk efficiently? A lot more people agree with me honestly, and the ones who do agree are the ones who have concise, thought out posts, valid arguments and a good understanding of game mechanics and philosophies. I'm afraid I cannot say the same about your handful of supporters.
Wait. You don't mission right?
Why do you care if high bears quit missioning (which they won't)? Why do you care if they can't grind isk as efficiently as before (which they will)?
I'd also love for you to explain how the suspect flags idea with missions (with missioners that roll with their babbysafety on green 24/7) will suddenly suffer MORE because of the change? They'll never accidentally shoot suspects, and vigilantes are interested in player kills, so they'll come in and blow up other suspect flagged people, even other vigilantes. This isn't the missioners problem. You actually think that the vigilantes are going to waste their time blowing up missioner wrecks especially the specific ones that matter instead of looking for more killmails?
You're a towel. |
My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 02:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:dexington wrote:Abdul 'aleem wrote:My Little Pyongyang wrote:Suspect flag for going into someone's pocket without authorization sounds fun. It would cause more pvp. Isn't that what pocket invaders want overall? Surely they aren't looking for easy targets and are scrub-tier pvpers. It does seem that the biggest concern to the griefers is that this change will create more risk to them both in and out of the mission pocket. And they are right that if this suggestion is implemented, griefing missioners will no longer be so easy/relatively risk free. You realize how easily griefers could exploit the suspect timer? All you need to do is accept a mission on you main, make a bookmark of the mission location an give it to an alt. You can now proceed to warp the victim to that location, which no one in the fleet has access to, and kill him when he lands without concord intervention. This is just going to be the MTU "exploit" allover, griefers exploiting ****** mechanics to kill inexperienced players. It's a dumb idea that don't even remotely solves any mission problems, except maybe for marauders pilots getting attacked by destroyers. In most other cases things remain unchanged, because the griefer would enable suspect him self, in the cases where it might give the mission runner an advantage any effect can be nullified by bringing 1-2 extra people. An excellent example of why not to do this.
If warping to a pocket triggered the suspect timer do you actually think they would allow squad warping to one? This is a lolworthy reason. |
My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 03:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Holy quote stack
How does this change prevent you from losing every single ship in a suicide gank? I've been suiciding for a long time now, longer than that character has existed and I don't know how this could change the dynamic from today. You can still bait people by stealing from a wreck to force suspect, this change wouldn't make it any different. You still get concorded if you attack them, suspect or not.
Ships are exploding around them that aren't theirs. Oh no! Looks like I can't finish this mission. Wouldn't want any stray bullets/lasers to hit my ship. Oh wait, that doesn't happen in eve. If anything, it would make the mission even easier than it already is because the rats would shoot players using webs, scrams and other ewar as that tends to draw a lot of hate from npcs.
The shooting wrecks when they have nothing better to do is silly as there are other systems to check for more suspect ganks.
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My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 03:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Genius CCP forum: "Message body can not be empty.Why do you want to post an empty message?"
To delete it because of accidental doubleposts from your ****** forums. |
My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 03:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:It does not need to allow squad warping.
If you take a mission, hand the waypoint to a PvP alt, and have that alt form a greifing gank fleet he can just sit in the pocket and kill anyone else who joins his fleet and warps to the mission as he likes.
In EVE, one always has to account for the abusive use of Alts.
Sorry, I'm not getting how this is working. You hand your waypoint to a pvp alt, giving them the location and they warp to it.
Are they flagged or not in your system? Not that it matters. If they are authorized to be there, they can sit there and wait for people to warp in as suspect and then blap them. I don't see a problem with this. If they aren't authorized to be there, they are suspect and can be shot by anyone who enters the pocket, authorized or not.
Why is this a problem? |
My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 03:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Abdul 'aleem wrote:Riot Girl wrote:
With a suspect flag, I can still gank the target exactly the same as before, only now there is a chance I may not lose all my ships.
As far as I know, a suspect flag doesn't make you immune to Concord action if you suicide gank. If I am wrong, please correct me. Otherwise, I believe that Concord will still kill you even after a suspect flag is applied for invading the mission. Not if someone shoots at me, which is now far more likely due to being auto-canflipped.
They won't shoot you, they have their safety on green. It defaults to green and mission bears don't touch that button, they are afraid of it. The only difference between now and this proposed system is it takes the choice of being suspect out of your hands. |
My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 03:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:My Little Pyongyang wrote:How does this change prevent you from losing every single ship in a suicide gank? I've been suiciding for a long time now, longer than that character has existed and I don't know how this could change the dynamic from today. You can still bait people by stealing from a wreck to force suspect, this change wouldn't make it any different. You still get concorded if you attack them, suspect or not. Because people are more likely to shoot at suspects. That is the whole point of this change, right? Quote:Ships are exploding around them that aren't theirs. Oh no! Looks like I can't finish this mission. Wouldn't want any stray bullets/lasers to hit my ship. Oh wait, that doesn't happen in eve. If anything, it would make the mission even easier than it already is because the rats would shoot players using webs, scrams and other ewar as that tends to draw a lot of hate from npcs. Mission triggers, mission items etc. You'd have to ask the mission runners who presented these concerns for more details.
They are not more likely to shoot you at all. Ever since the safety change the accidental deaths due to engaging can thieves has plummeted. It's not worth my time to go into mission pockets and dance around flagged waiting for them to shoot me so I can warp in my logi and break their stuff.
These mission runners are bad and don't know how to shoot npcs. Bad mission runners aren't really relevant.
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My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 03:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Abdul 'aleem wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Abdul 'aleem wrote:Riot Girl wrote:
With a suspect flag, I can still gank the target exactly the same as before, only now there is a chance I may not lose all my ships.
As far as I know, a suspect flag doesn't make you immune to Concord action if you suicide gank. If I am wrong, please correct me. Otherwise, I believe that Concord will still kill you even after a suspect flag is applied for invading the mission. Not if someone shoots at me, which is now far more likely due to being auto-canflipped. So you know that your post is wrong and that you are spreading misinformation. You may want to edit it. The whole point of your stupid idea is to make it more likely that people will shoot suspects. Now you're saying people won't shoot suspects. WTF is wrong with you?
Mission bears won't shoot suspects. Players who pose as mission bears setting up traps for griefers will shoot suspects. This is where the fun is.
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My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2014.01.29 03:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:My Little Pyongyang wrote:They are not more likely to shoot you at all. Ever since the safety change the accidental deaths due to engaging can thieves has plummeted. It's not worth my time to go into mission pockets and dance around flagged waiting for them to shoot me so I can warp in my logi and break their stuff. I'm not talking about can-flipping, I'm talking about suicide ganking. If mission runners aren't going to shoot me, then what is the point of this change? So vigilantes can shoot me? Well they can already shoot me right after I've legitimately committed a crime.
This allows for proactive action rather than reactive. It could even be by the mission runner themselves. Alt account in a recon, locks you down as his mission ship warps out, comes back in a pvp ship. Obviously most mission runners are too risk adverse to do this but you would at least run the risk of annoying someone who uses missioning to make isk on the side for pvp, or as stated before, traps.
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My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 03:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Abdul 'aleem wrote:Riot Girl wrote:
I'm not talking about can-flipping, I'm talking about suicide ganking. If mission runners aren't going to shoot me, then what is the point of this change? So vigilantes can shoot me? Well they can already shoot me right after I've legitimately committed a crime.
You missed the previous post where it is clearly stated that some players will be able to accept missions for the sole intention to counter-gank any mission invaders/grifers who show up. They can do that already without bypassing game mechanics.
The point of the entire topic is to MAKE it a game mechanic. They wouldn't be bypassing anything. |
My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 03:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:My Little Pyongyang wrote:This allows for proactive action rather than reactive. It could even be by the mission runner themselves. Alt account in a recon, locks you down as his mission ship warps out, comes back in a pvp ship. Obviously most mission runners are too risk adverse to do this but you would at least run the risk of annoying someone who uses missioning to make isk on the side for pvp, or as stated before, traps. What's stopping people from doing this already?
DA PO-PO. |
My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 04:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:My Little Pyongyang wrote:Riot Girl wrote:My Little Pyongyang wrote:This allows for proactive action rather than reactive. It could even be by the mission runner themselves. Alt account in a recon, locks you down as his mission ship warps out, comes back in a pvp ship. Obviously most mission runners are too risk adverse to do this but you would at least run the risk of annoying someone who uses missioning to make isk on the side for pvp, or as stated before, traps. What's stopping people from doing this already? DA PO-PO. Nah.
Technically you'd be right, there is nothing stopping me from web/scramming your ship with a recon, but I'd only have about 15 seconds to kill you before concord decides to get off their doughnut break and turn my recon into scrap.
So I guess my brain is stopping me, because being ******** is not high on my list of things to do (sometimes it happens!). |
My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 04:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:
Why use a recon, when you can pop me with an ABC? Or you can wait until I go suspect and tackle me with an interceptor, or use combat probes to scan me down and kill me.
Well, the point is to preserve the original aggressed ship instead of revenge killing. With a suicide gank, it's far too late to save the ship after they have fired, even if they are using gank talos instead of alphanados. People also don't typically go suspect on anything that isn't a mission ship, so my pvp / brick fit XYZ bait doesn't work.
I'm not looking for this change for fair fights, not even close. This is just one more way to gank some idiot with a ship, it just so happens that the idiot is on the griefer side rather than the griefed side.
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My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 04:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Abdul 'aleem wrote:My Little Pyongyang wrote:Riot Girl wrote:My Little Pyongyang wrote:This allows for proactive action rather than reactive. It could even be by the mission runner themselves. Alt account in a recon, locks you down as his mission ship warps out, comes back in a pvp ship. Obviously most mission runners are too risk adverse to do this but you would at least run the risk of annoying someone who uses missioning to make isk on the side for pvp, or as stated before, traps. What's stopping people from doing this already? DA PO-PO. She knows.. she knows... Believe me.... she knows. Griefers will have a much harder time messing with missioners if they are flagged suspect when they invade a mission. And, really, believe me.... she knows.....
You might be overestimating how many mission bears would actually even dream of shooting back. If this change went through I doubt anyone who went into a mission pocket unauthorized would be unprepared to be shot. Overall nothing much would change, but it would deter mission griefers who are not interested in combat for the most part. Guess you should go into the mission with a brick fit XYZ and still **** with their stuff without worrying about dying from a mission ship but there is always that risk of a recon with a long point. |
My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy
Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2014.01.29 04:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
Depending on the composition of the mission the risk of losing items to covops is still fairly high for the unprepared, so your suspect flagging solution is not a one-size-fits-all solution.
Edit: Falcon could probably do it very easily too. You can't really volley it, they could steal your **** and if you try to engage, they can just jam you out before you kill it, and jam out your tackle too if it was a tarp. |
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